I saw a guy several times over the summer.  I initiated things (got his mobile number, texted him and asked him out -- sorry, I'm a Kiwi, we do these kind of things).

I think I fancy being a Kiwi now. 

He hinted at the end of the first date that he'd like to see me again, then rang me the following weekend and organised a lunch date.  He did some of the things you mention in the Sam index, like strike masterful poses, take brief looks at my breasts, touch me on the arm, maintain constant eye contact and remember what I said, including from one date to the next.  He also tried to make jokes, tho he's not a naturally funny person.

These are all positive signs that he liked you and you gave him a good impression on your first date.

Then I went away for three weeks over Xmas -- we texted a few times but I didn't want to overdo it (i.e. I didn't want to look as tho I was presuming an intimacy already).

We went on a lunch-date when I came back -- then I had to go away for two weeks again.  When I returned I texted, and hinted (but didn't ask directly) that I'd like to catch up, but he didn't get back to me.  He went away to have a minor operation about ten days after I got back, so was away for a while himself. 

He probably didn't want to commit to meeting up with you or starting a relationship until his minor operation was over and he was fully recovered. Men are proud and don't like women seeing them ill, in any way, particularly in the early stages of a relationship or before a relationship. 

A male friend told me just to ring him, in case he'd been too busy to call -- he said I'd know from his tone of voice whether he wanted to brush me off. 

He is exactly right, it's good to get an opinion of a male friend, they will give a male interpretation, not some complicated female explanation where you think that he thinks like a female does.

So I called him one day when I thought he'd be back at work, and he sounded pleased to hear from me, and said he was busy but would ring me later. 

So your male friend was right.  Far too many women just sit back and let their imagination run wild.

He rang me that night and we chatted and he suggested that we catch up on the weekend.  However, when he finally rang me on Sunday am, I had to catch an early flight for work that I'd forgotten about when I spoke to him earlier in the week, so we couldn't catch up that day.  He told me to text him during the week with some possible dates for lunch when I came back.

I couldn't do lunch the following week because of my commitments, so suggested dinner on Thurs or Fri night. 

At least he's giving alternatives rather than blanking you. 

He texted back a day later, saying he couldn't do either of those, but how about something on the weekend, and maybe I'd like to bring with friend Tina along with me.

Tina?  Why ask a friend to come, if you want some intimate time with someone?  A guy would only usually do this, if he was asking you out but didn't know whether you fancied him.  However in this case, you've said you wanted to meet up, so what's the point in you bringing Tina along?  Unless he's trying to signify to you that he doesn't fancy you too much or he just wants to be friends.

I was stung, thinking this was some kind of diplomatic brush-off -- that he thought I'd come on too strong by suggesting dinner, even after all this time, and was trying to make it clear he just wanted to be friends by suggesting I bring Tina along. 

I don't think he would have thought you were coming on too strong.  It would have to be another reason, I would say the friends option would be more likely, but also trying to play hard to get might be another option, trying to suggest to you, you haven't won him over totally yet.  Unless he felt as though he needed an entertainer there, because he was frightened he would struggle to find anything to say to you.

A couple of my female friends said he was just being a tool and playing me -- otherwise, why would he suggest such a thing, and told me not to reply to him.  (I spoke to Tina -- she's a lesbian, by the way -- and she said they'd bumped into each other over the past couple of weeks and had said they must catch up...nevertheless she thought it was strange he would ask me to bring her along, even tho she's one of my best friends.)

Maybe he's up for watching some lesbian action or a threesome or something like that.  Or maybe he just finds her entertaining and believes he can bounce off her and reflect well on you.

I sent him a brief, light text message, saying that maybe I could do lunch on sat or sun, but didn't mention Tina.  He didn't reply (tho he often takes a few days to reply to texts), and I thought, I should forget him, he's a d*ck if he's too scared to have dinner with me and wants me to bring a hot lesbian along next time I see him.

I do think it's a bad idea for a guy to do this, just don't know why he would possibly be so stupid.

Then four days after I sent my text, I suddenly got one from him one night, saying that he could only do a late Sunday afternoon beer with him.  I picked up the phone and rang him immediately, sick of all the texting, but went through to his message bank and rang off without saying I'd called, thinking, he's seen my name come up on his screen and he's avoiding me.

Or he's driving, or he's on the phone to someone or out of a signal area or he's in the toilet or something like that.  Many possibilities.

Half an hour later, I got a text from him, saying that he'd been on another call and to ring him now if I liked, giving me his home phone number, which he'd never given me before (he usually rings me at home or I ring him on his mobile at work).  I rang, and we had another pleasant chat and he seemed pleased to talk to me. 

Again, that's positive. 

He explained that he couldn't do thu or fri night dinner or anything on Saturday because he'd have his son with him, and he doesn't like to inflict his son on people who don't know him, and also that he would be manning a market stall all Sunday -- hence the late beer.  I have to go away again for work next week and won't be back till Sat -- the plan now is that I'm to ring when I get back and we'll see whether we can find time to catch up...

So, is anything happening here or am I being played, as some of my friends suggest? 

He is definitely not a player.  A player would have met up with you by now, shagged you and either kept shagging you or moved on.  He wouldn't dither about like this bloke.  His actions suggest several possibilities, he's not confident with women and he's hoping you will do a lot of the chasing and action, he's not that interested in you, or with you and him being busy at the wrong times, things have not gone well, so he might have come to the conclusion that things are not likely to happen, he's been hurt so much in the past that he's reluctant to get involved in another relationship.

(And why would he ask me to bring lesbian eye candy along on a date?) 

For some lesbian or threesome action?  Or just to take the pressure off him, so she can entertain you botn to break the ice. Or as you say because he only sees you as a friend, that is a possibility.

Should I persist with him? 

Well maybe you should cool off with him for a few weeks and see if he contacts you.  If he doesn't then contact him again and just communicate with him as if you are only friends.

He is a single dad, has been burned & played by his ex and dated a few people fleetingly since then (or so I've been told by friends). 

Guys that have been played by women, tend to be very cautious about women.  Does he want to risk being hurt again, or does he want an easy life being single?  It's a tricky decision.  Eventually he should get over it and give women a try, but it takes a lot to persuade him, he has to know that she's not going to play him. 

A male friend has also told me that he doesn't think he's attractive to women.

I sort of touched on the lack of self confidence with women thing above, I do get a slight feeling, he's not confident with women and used to dealing with women.  Women are pretty scarey, the slightest thing you say or do wrong and they are off and he's hurt again.  Sometimes a guy can fall into his comfort zone and try and avoid any effort with women so he doesn't get hurt.

I've only had three dates in three months with this guy, but we have started talking more on the phone to each other. We do seem to have problems finding time to meet -- he has his son every second week and I often have to travel out of town for work. 

Exactly and that is only going to continue to hamper your chances of being together. 

Despite what my friends say, he seems sincere in wanting to be friends with me, but do you think he wants to be anything more?

He's stayed in contact with you and offers alternatives when he is not available and he talks and is very attentive.  All that suggests that he wants to keep seeing you, it's just that he doesn't seem to want to show full committment at the moment.

I really like him, if that's not clear from what I'm saying.  I've never met a guy who was such a good listener.  He remembers things from conversation to conversation.  Usually I do all the listening with men.  I'm reluctant to let this opportunity go, if there is something here.

I don't think he's disinterested in you, I just think he is unsure of you or unsure of himself at the moment.  I think you need to give it some more time to get a clearer perspective of where things are going.  If he continues to frustrate you, then it may be time to step back and reflect and give him some space for a few weeks.

Reply by frangpani 24.03.08

Thanks for the advice. I finally managed to meet up with this guy for brunch on the Easter weekend. There was mutual phone calling and texting preceding the meeting, and he clearly thought out a plan of how he would put aside time to catch up with me, given his childcare arrangements. There was no suggestion of bringing Tina along, (tho she is very entertaining!).

We spent 90 minutes together chatting. There was much mirroring of body language and attentiveness shown, plus consistent eye contact and only very occasional fiddling with keys and phone.

It depends how he fiddles with the keys.  Harsh fiddling suggests boredom or nervousness.  Caressing them is his unconscious mind saying I want to caress her.

But it could be that he's just a good listener. There was a kiss on the cheek at the end (there always is), but nothing more. I felt the overall vibe was friendship, and I'm getting the impression that he is a man with a lot of female friends (I.e. a SNAG).

You can usually tell from the kiss whether a guy is interested.  If he's interested it will be slow and lingering, if he's not it will be a quick peck on the cheek, lasting less than a second. 

There were no plans suggested at the end or 'I'll call you'; just 'see you later', though he was rushing off to pick up his son. But I felt good about spending time with him. It was a pleasant and positive experience.  I'm enjoying getting to know this guy.

Guys don't necessarily make arrangements for the next time to meet.  Some guys feel apprehensive about it, from the point of view of they don't want to presume that the woman wants to meet up.  And if she doesn't want to meet up again, he doesn't want to be stood there when she's rejected the chance of meeting up again.

I reckon that my female friends would tell me to leave it alone now, that nothing is really happening or has happened (i.e. sexual), and they'd say that he just wants to be friends. On the other hand, I'm tempted to think 'nothing ventured, nothing gained', so maybe I should try and build on things, especially since there seems to be a genuine rapport between us.

I think when relationships are going as positive as this, even though they are just friendships, you will be silly to walk away.  More time together might make him realise that he needs to be asking you or make him fancy you, if he doesn't already.  In the meantime if other better men come along that seem more interested then I reckon you should go for them.

If I was a man and I was interested, wouldn't I continue to chase? Why not reverse the roles? But if I persevere and keep calling him, will I just come across as a woman who won't take a hint? Or should I wait and see if he calls? (You can see I'm presuming he won't...because of the friendship vibe.  And also nothing sexual in four dates over three months.)

On that basis I do find it unlikely that anything will happen, however he could just be blind and think you don't fancy him. 

I must say I'm fascinated by your website. I find your advice -- and that of a couple of other men I've spoken to -- much more laidback and matter-of-fact than that which I often get from female friends.

I think most men like to speak their mind, they are only stopped from speaking their mind because women tend to be very sensitive to what men say and often misinterpret what a man is trying to say.  Men don't really understand women and equally I believe women don't really understand men.  We just both think in different ways. 

The message that men are just like us too -- vulnerable, emotional, etc -- is particularly reassuring.

This is usually very hidden behind a male facade and a lot of male bravado and that is why a lot of books fail to talk about this side of men.  Men typically can't show their vulnerable and emotional side, because they are meant to be tough men.  Men believe that any show of emotion towards themself is going to make a woman think of him as a friend, rather than a guy they are attracted to.

A lot of the pop-psychology around (esp American, like The Rules, He's Just Not That Interested in You) presents men as these driven hunters who will always pursue the women they like heatedly. What do you think of that all that stuff?

I've never read them, so can't really comment.  I would say some men do hunt women but certainly not all men.  In fact I would probably say it's an even split, it depends on the guys personality. 

I'm sorry to read in another post that women aren't interested in you after hearing about your website.  I guess they might fear that going out with you might turn into some kind of lab-rat situation or that details of their personal lives will end up on the net. 

Yes, I guess that is what they are maybe thinking.  Though I can guarantee any lady that I really do want a relationship and I would never see any of my relationships as an experiment for my web site, like a lot of other men I just want to find my princess.  I am quite fussy about who I go out with, she has to be a long term prospect, otherwise I won't lead her on and go out with her on any further dates once I've made the decision she is not right for me in the long term.  I only ever profess to know how a man's mind works, I would find it impossible to know how a woman's mind works.  I do have a guess how women think in some articles but I'm not sure whether I'm right and I'm sure like men, all women are different in some ways.

I'm sure that wouldn't be the case.  I think you must be a fascinating person, tho I can't envisage you at all -- like, would you be a social worker?  Or a lager lout?  Both?

Neither and particularly not the lager lout.

Reply by Frangipani 25.04.08

After my last email to you, I decided just to cool off from the situation and give this guy a wide berth for a while.  I didn't see, ring or text him for a month.  He didn't approach me, so I thought 'obviously no interest there'.

I re-read what you said about not throwing away a perfectly good friendship, and thought long and hard about whether I really wanted to be friends with him, or if I had only ever been interested in him as a love object (tho of course one ultimately wants love objects to be friends if one wants to have a relationship with them).  Should I just piss him off, etc?  If I was living in a big city, I would probably just forget about him but we live in a small town so chances are I'll keep on bumping into him, see him at social occasions, etc.

In the end, I decided the quality of interaction I'd had with him was definitely as good or better than what I had with my other male friends, so I would try the friendship path.  I rang his mobile one weekend.  It rang about ten times and he didn't pick up.

Probably was too busy doing something or not the right time to speak.

I rang off before the phone went through to messagebank. Then I realised when I got off the phone that my name would probably have been recorded as it's likely he's got my home phone number in his contacts list. So I thought I'd better leave things for a bit, say another week or so, because if I kept on ringing he might think I was an obsessive stalker or a lovelorn type.  Or that I had something important to say, which I didn't.

A couple of days later, my mobile woke me early in the morning.  I found a long, prosey text message from him (like an email really), saying he was sorry he hadn't picked up my call when I rang but he'd been manning his market stall (he's no multi-tasker).  He'd meant to ring me back, but it had been too late to call by the time he remembered, so he'd try and ring me that night.

I thought, okay, I'll leave that up to him and he can call me if he wants.  I didn't text back any acknowledgement of his message ('cool', 'catch you later', etc) like I would with my female friends.

Well, if you didn't give him any confirmation, he might not be reassured that he could call.

He didn't ring that night but he rang the next, profusely apologetic that he hadn't rung back earlier.  We had a nice chat, for about twenty minutes then he said he had to make two other calls.  I was fairly non-flirty and matter-of-fact.  I don't think I was cool or chilly, tho I have cooled towards him somewhat (if that makes sense).  He was quite chatty -- in fact, I've noticed he's generally become more chatty since our first couple of meetings and volunteers a fair bit of information about himself. In the past, I was always the one doing the talking.  I would talk for at least the first half of the conversation before he would say anything much about himself, and I felt I must be coming across as a raving egotist.  (I hinted about whether I was talking too much once, and he said, 'No, I'm quite enjoying it'.)

Men don't particularly like dominating the conversation.  It depends on whether he is interested in the woman, whether he actually feels attentive and happy that she is dominating the conversation.

There were no plans or anything to meet up, though he did say he would try and call between my next two trips away for work (i.e. in about two weeks' time).  I'm not going to try and make any contact with him before then.  Just see if he calls.

Even though I tried to do the mature 'we'll just be friends' thing, this contact with him did pique my curiosity again.  I mean, if I missed a call from one of my girlfriends, I wouldn't rush to call her back.  I'd wait and see if she rang again or try and catch her later in the week.  I'd respond to a missed message but not a missed call.  Also -- most of my male friendships are fairly functional.  We ring, catch up for a reason (e.g. go for a bike ride together, share work/hobby-related info).  We rarely ring 'just to chat'.

Of course, it's a woman's approach to search for secret meanings behind things.  None of this may be in anyway significant. It's probably all female overanalysis on my behalf, but I find his behaviour strange and am curious as to what a man would make of it. Maybe he's just an options man.  He's a gentlemanly, middle-class type tho, and if you're a woman, I think it's tempting to mistake courtesy, niceness, etc, for interest.

He's showed the interest to keep in touch and phone you back, so I would say he's interested in seeing you again.  I would expect him to phone back and make arrangemens to go out, if and when he interested.

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