| Only goes out with me to pull other women |
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| Written by Hermitcrab | |
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OK take a deep breath cos this is long and complicated!
About 2 years ago I met a very good looking guy at a quiz (let's call him Paul) - I say met, he was staring at me all night and sheepishly said hello to me at the end of the evening. Always a sign that he fancies you, if he seems a bit nervous about approaching you (particularly if he is the timid type). It transpired this guy does the same job as I do and works for a firm opposite mine. I happened to meet up with some of the guys from that firm regularly so I asked them to bring this bloke along (as I am a sucker for a pretty face and boy is his pretty!). Sure enough, he turned up but was very quiet (I on the other hand am "the life and soul" - or just plain raucous) but when he did speak it was mostly to me. He was probably overwhelmed by several things. Firstly you invited these other guys, so he has big competition to compete for your attention. Secondly if you were the life of the party he would probably feel a bit inadequate being quiet. He probably thought to impress you he needed to act a bit raucous and get himself noticed too, which sounds as though is not his character, so he would have been acting like something he is not. But reading this carefully I always think opposites attract, in this case you have found yourself a placid guy and you are raucous woman, which the way I see it is the perfect combination. If I put it this way, if you were both raucous you would clash because you would be both competing with each other. But this guy is a placid guy who can give you some attention and for him you are the raucous woman who can entertain him. I thought I had scared him off but he came to more of our lunches, getting chattier each time. Again encouraging because he is cautiously getting to know you and opening up more and more each time. I soon discovered he had a girlfriend and presumed nothing would happen, and we would just be acquaintances. That was a bit of a bombshell. I started a relationship with someone else and we didn't see each other for 3 months. Then about a year ago, we ended our relationships with our other halves. He seemed like he'd just been let out of jail, while I was gutted. When blokes finish their girlfriends they often feel liberated, men are much more perceptive than you think about whether the relationship is one to last. Often the woman is just too clingy or demanding or everything is about her enjoying herself, so it can be a massive relief when a guy finishes with a woman. Virtually straight after he'd finished his relationship, he asked me out for a drink. I was still hung up over my ex but agreed (thinking he might take my mind off it - I know stupid) and it was all very friendly. Well, yes I don't really recommend getting with someone straight after you've finished a relationship. It's best to have time to reflect, otherwise you tend to do silly, irritational things. He invited someone else along and just went on about wanting to get laid. I gathered that he was trying to tell me he just wanted to be friends. However, his body language was very different (pupils dilated, delayed gazes, in my body space) and he asked me out to his works do (I didn't go). I would say this is a sign that he fancies you but in this case, I would say he fancies you in an unhealthy way. Yes dilated pupils is a sign but gazing in your body space so early on is a sign that he wants only your body. And just to prove it he talks about getting laid, not the sort of conversation you would expect from someone who was attracted to you as a person. He was probably seeing you as a sexual object and wanted to get laid by you. He also emailed me to say if I ever needed to talk (about my ex) then he would be there. A week went by and I was out with my friends. I texted him to come out and I was surprised when he dropped everything and came out. I'm not surprised you turned him down once, he won't want to throw away this chance. We spent most of our time flirting and bantering (it can get quite nasty sometimes) and then he was putting his hands on my back and stroking my face etc. I got the hint! However, being a childish brat, I was more intent on making my ex-boyfriend jealous (who was there) and I was really egging him on, holding his hand etc. When we left, Paul went to kiss me (he was drunk). I gave him a peck and left. Again as you indicated, not really the right thing to do, you weren't interested in him but interested in making your ex jealous. And if your ex ditched you, he's unlikely to be jealous, (no offence but he's more likely to think thank goodness for that, she won't be hassling me). If a guy finishes someone, then an ex is an ex and he will want it to stay like that, unless you finished over something petty. Some weeks later, I texted him to come out again and he couldn't (he was with his family miles away) but on another night he came out, we ended up back at his flat. After telling me that he thought I looked like I was into all sorts of kinky things, he tried coming onto me. Again, he seems to be seeing you as nothing more than a sexual object, something to play with, which is not a particularly good start to any potential relationship. He probably thought he had you in the bag, by getting you back to his flat. Although I got into his bed, I told him flat out I wasn't going to sleep with him. Again big mistake, as soon as you get into his bed, he thinks you want a bit of it. As soon as he gets into bed with you, he can't take his mind off sex. If you state you don't want sex he just thinks your a woman that's playing games and is saying she doesn't want sex, but really she wants to be taken by surprise. We left it at that until 10 minutes later he started kissing me. Basically he was carrying on like a right gigolo, trying all these massages etc on me but I just felt really awkward and repeated that I wasn't going to sleep with him. Again this re-inforced the message that he sees you as just a sexual object. If he valued any potential of a relationship with you, he would be treading very carefully and not want to put you off. He would be willing to wait for sex. We talked for a while and then he asked me (in a joking way) why I hadn't left by now. He also said he was disappointed that I was "all mouth and no trousers" (I took this to mean in bad way). This did annoy me and as I went to leave, he grabbed me back into the bed. Eventually, I told him that I did fancy him but all he said was "do you?". I gathered then that I was just a lay for the night and told him that I didn't realise he thought of me as one of his "lays", that I'm not a performing sealion and that I wouldn't be surprised if he chose to ignore me the following week (I tend to say what's on my mind). I think you are very perceptive and you are completly right in your judgement. Then is nothing else I could have concluded from what you have said above. He sees you as a sex object and is willing to risk scaring you off to get his sexual fix. The next morning, he had the morning glory and woke me up by trying to get me to give him a hand job (he thought I was still asleep), and I snatched my hand away. When I then "woke up" he started feigning that he couldn't remember anything about the night before but that it couldn't have been much good as he had hard on. I just got up and got dressed and went to leave. He asked me to stay for a cup of tea but was really moody (well it could have been sheepish). I then left. Sounds like a real sexual perv. He just never gave in. The fact that you said you fancied him probably made him think he could get you going eventually. The following week, I saw him in the shop at lunch. Thinking he hadn't seen me I left quickly, but he called me 2 minutes later to tell me he "wasn't ignoring" me. I didn't really know what to say and feeling awkward I told him I had to go back to work. I noticed he started cancelling out on lunches, although he always emailed me to let me know (he has never ignored my emails/texts), but then he would phone me up and rearrange lunch so it was just the 2 of us. In September, he started this religious course (I used to be a goth so he thought it would be hilarious to drag me to church) and I went with him every week. Sometimes he would invite me back to his but nothing ever happened and he was very distant. I would have seen it that he was being more positive about you now. He was taking the time to see you every week. But still he suggests going back to his place, so just as he is starting to look as though he might be taking you seriously, he gets back to what he really wants, to have sex with a goth (that's probably where the kinky thoughts about you came from). One evening I went out with him, his flatmate and her friend. He started getting very aggressive (not violent though) and shouting at me, because I accused him of being disrespectful and treating me like a big game (he does make me feel like I'm just a game). He told me that he did respect me more than I seemed to think. By the end of the evening he was very drunk and started accusing me of fancying his flatmate's friend. When I assured him I didn't, he kind of gave me this very long gaze as though he was about to do something, but then I went all embarrassed and looked away. He looked disappointed, sat on the bed and passed out (yes he was that drunk). As time went on, we both got more and more distant from each other. The delayed stares, dilated pupils etc have never stopped. I invited him back to my flat and he stayed long enough to eat and bogged straight off! One minute he tells me he wants to get into a serious relationship, with a view to marriage and kids, tells me he hates the whole club scene and that he wants a relationship with someone he's friends with, who makes him laugh etc He would tell you things like that, to try and decieve you and win you over and finally reach the challenge of bedding you. and the next he's bragging about his latest conquest. But then it all ends up here doesn't it, from one extreme to the other. First of all trying the serious relationship story, then trying to make you jealous by telling you about all the other women he's had, and trying to demonstrate that he would be experienced in bed, so you should try him out. He keeps asking me how long it's been since I last had sex as though we're just mates and yet when I talk to other men he gets all weird. Yes because he probably feels that you are going to have sex with these other guys but why won't you have sex with him. That would just be frustrating to him. One night I went to a drinks evening he'd organised and straightaway he started being bitchy to me (he likes to invite a lot of women to our lunches and flirt with them) in front of other people, putting down my firm and generally suggesting I'm crap at my job. I started talking to one of our mutual friends and then one of the bar staff (a rather good-looking 18-year-old to be precise) started chatting me up and getting me all sorts of weird drinks, and I gave him my number. I was having a good laugh but Paul went really strange on me - looking at me like I was his worst enemy, refusing to sit next to me etc. When I suggested we go to a club after, he flounced out of the pub without a word! This guy is a real creep, not only does he want to use you as a shagging machine, he is willing to treat you badly to try and get his own way, and he is possessive before he's even having a relationship with you. Almost saying that why should you have sex with other guys, when you won't have sex with me, I'm experienced and will be far better than all these other guys. And the party he was basically just saying look at all these women I've invited, I'm a right showboater and really popular with the women. But the sad thing is he can't focus in on one of these other women, because he's focused on this challenge of getting you into bed and can't give up until he has succeeded. Weeks later, he apologised and said he was being an idiot. So he does say somethings sensible and truthfull sometimes then! I ended up going back to his flat, where nothing happened but I woke up in the morning to find him cuddling me. Again I don't understand why you are giving this guy any time whatsoever, whether as a friend or potential boyfriend, he is just a sex pest. Thinking he was doing this in his sleep, I thought nothing of it and gave him a hug back, but he got up went to the loo came back and resumed the cuddle. When we got up, he seemed off with me and I was with him. Afterwards I didn't speak to him for 2 months, because I just had enough of the mixed signals. Again, he didn't get his own way. He's not giving mixed signals, he's basically signalling he wants you to shag him and as soon as he reaches that challenge he will either ditch you or keep using you for sex when he feels like it. He phoned me about a month ago about meeting up for lunch but ended up cancelling. He goes on and on about the fact that I ignored him for 2 months (do I have to do all the running?). There's only one way you should be running, as far away from him as possible! Since the night with the barman, he won't go back to that bar (he told me this but says it's because he doesn't like the food), and he goes on that the barman may be really good looking but he sleeps with everyone (I wasn't ever that bothered about the barman!). So is he saying that all his conquests didn't really exist now? He also only goes out with me to pull other women (although he generally fails miserably and I end up pulling more blokes), told me he still loved his ex-girlfriend and had started sleeping with her again and has now recently told me that he has a new girlfriend. Again you've got to understand this guy is a delboy gigolo. He tries to sell his goods with all sorts of lies, so I wouldn't really rely on anything he says, he's trying to make you jealous. If it is true then it only goes to prove that he carries on using his ex-girlfriends for a cheap fling when he can't get any. Actually he made a point of saying he didn't want to tell me as though it would hurt my feelings but then finally admitted there is a woman "who has stolen his heart" and asked me when he should talk to her about getting into a relationship (and then promptly asked me back to his flat for "bacon sandwiches" - when I said no he looked scared and thought he had upset me). Only goes to prove he is either a liar or a cheat, or both. Things are a lot more cool between us since the religious course finished. I'm not one to make first moves and he knows that. I've also told him that messing about playing games just winds me up and makes me lose interest. I really don't know if he likes me or not, and if he does like me - what does he want? Sex! I know he wonders whether I like him. I do have a habit of being very sarcastic, and he says that I'm horrible to him all the time, but when I try to be nice, he goes all weird on me. I asked him at xmas whether he wanted more than friendship with me (although he was drunk) and he said he respected me too much - what on earth does that mean? Whether he's drunk or sober, it sounds as though he never talks sense. My friend got so annoyed with the silly banter and the games that she went behind my back and told him that I liked him. He didn't believe her though. The trouble is I do like him, but when he constantly tries to make me jealous and gets all competitive, it just annoys me and makes me want to retreat back into my shell. I don't know what he wants and whether I should try to make a move. I can't help thinking that he would enjoy rejecting me more than seize the chance to move anything forward. At the moment we're not even talking because I yelled at him over a silly email. What do you think? I think you are actually very perceptive, you've read him like a book. But then you go and say something completely silly in this message at the end "the trouble is I do like him". I know women like bad boys and he really is treating you like crap, but really I don't understand why you would even consider fancying him. He's obsessed about having sex with you, nothing he ever does seems to be the right thing. What enjoyment have you ever got from being friends with him and what enjoyment are you ever going to get from being in a relationship with him? This shagging whoever he fancies and can get his hands on, is just going to continue, whether he's in a relationship with you or not. He's nothing more than a cheat and a liar who is going to continue hurting you and playing silly mind games. If he does manage to get you into bed, one of four things will happen: 1) He's achieved his challenge, so he'll go cold on you and pursue his next challenge. 2) He will stay with you to prove a point, but will be doing his ex at the same time. 3) He will stay with you but when another good offer comes along he'll be hooked on her. And mess her about thinking he has a winning formula. 4) And the inevitable if he does ditch you, he'll still come back to you for more sex every now and then, because he'll know you can't resist a bad boy and the possibility of persuading him to get back with you. My advice is to avoid him before something even more bad happens. Reply from hermitcrab on 13.04.2007 Thanks for your detailed reply. Needless to say I was half disappointed and the other half not surprised. Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of points because I think you've got the impression that this bloke carries on like a right jock or a rutting dog. When I said "in my body space", I meant he stands in my body space, but I've never known him to stare at my body. I have posted this response of yours to indicate that sometimes I can be wrong and sometimes I mis-interpret what people put in their messages. It's important that my visitors get an impartial view, even if I admit to being wrong sometimes. Secondly, when I said he invited me back to his flat - it was really no more than out of politeness. We'd take turns giving each other lifts to the course and we'd invite the other in for a cup of tea, to natter about the course or watch TV. I never got the hint it was for anything more (we would need to be at work the next day anyway). I certainly couldn't see Paul as a bad boy (and he knows that) and if you met me you'd know why (lol) - even Paul accuses me of being "predatory" (and that was just before he flounced out of the pub)! He's even admitted to me that he thinks I think he's a knob. I must admit by the way you described the things that he did in your message, I thought you did think he was a knob to a certain degree. So I could understand him thinking that you thought he was a knob. ("predatory") Ah, so are you are saying your sexually forward? In which case that would put his references to sex in a different light, because he probably sees you as someone he could say anything sexual to. Whereas most women tend to be very sensitive when a bloke is straight onto them about anything sexual. More importantly, I forgot to mention a conversation we had when I said to Paul I thought he was just after sex. He seemed to go all uncomfortable and got a bit annoyed. When I told him that the night he jumped on me was proof, he told me he regretted doing it, that he was drunk, and that it was before he got to know me. The truth is that men are generally want to get down to sex with a woman straight away, they would get down to it within minutes of meeting a woman if their were women that would agree to that. But when they are willing to take a risk to push a woman for sex in the early stages it is usually because they don't fancy the woman that much and are willing to take the risk of losing the woman by jumping straight for the woman and requesting sex. I'm not sure I'm entirely in agreement with you that he's a complete b*stard who's just out for a lay, as I don't know many men who would still be interested after 12 months and 6 failed attempts/missed opportunities, if it was just about sex. However, I agree this is partly about a challenge and that he's not after a relationship. When replying to your message I was swaying towards that idea at the end of message, for exactly the same reason that he persistently met up with you a lot of times and never got any sex at all, but still sticked with it. But the reason why I didn't come to that conclusion was I thought back through all you had said and still came to the conclusion that all he wanted was sex from you. I don't believe my perception of the situation is right everytime, particularly as I don't get to meet the people involved. It maybe in this case that you persistently saying "no" to him and him also getting to know you and having fun with you, has persuaded him that he actually likes you for a long term relationship. Based on what you said, I stick by the fact that in the initial stages he just wanted you for sex, and I still doubt whether he would be a long term relationship prospect for you. But really the only way of you finding that out is to start going out with him. And the reason I like him - he's good-looking, intelligent and he makes me laugh -and I'm shallow and childish and probably deserve everything I get - take my ex-boyfriend - I ditched him over the internet! Your follow-up message has put things in a different light to me. Most of the things you said about him in your initial message where generally bad and that he was a bit of a sex hound. Whereas you have now put a different light on him and suggested that you are quite sexually aggressive yourself. This kind of sways me a bit further towards the fact that this guy is persistent and maybe genuine. But to be honest I'm still not entirely convinced. I think it's a case of you having a trial relationship with him to find out the real picture. |
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