| We got onto the subject of past relationships and he asked me how many people i had had sex with |
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| Written by longtallsally | |
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Hey Sam
I recently started seeing someone that i met through a friend.
We have been on 6 dates and things were wonderful, we got on very well and are going through all the pair bonding stages that you have talked about.
Thing is on our last date it all went a bit pear shaped. We got onto the subject of past relationships and he asked me how many people i had had sex with. I didn't know how to answer as felt it was an unacceptable question that i would'nt ask him about. i said well if i said 20 would that change the way you viewed me and he said yes.
You should have said that you will answer that question later on in the relationship. Yes, it’s pretty stupid for a guy to ask that. However I think you were also pretty stupid to say what you said too. I usually avoid that subject with women because what I don’t know won’t hurt me. If she has been with hundreds, if I don’t find out it won’t affect my image of her in my own mind, which is why I avoid the subject. Unfortunately in the past women have brought that subject up with me and naturally I have to ask them the question in return, but even in that circumstance I prefer not to be asking. Not all guys are like me though, some guys will ask and some guys will be like me and prefer the opinion of “if I don’t know it won’t hurt”. It’s certainly not a subject you should joke on, because a guy is bound to take what you say seriously and if you change your story he is just likely to think, you have changed your story because of his reaction.
I asked him why and he said that it would mean that i had slept around and could have a disease. I work in sexual health and told that someone could be a virgin and have sex for the first time and get a disease.
That is just one of many reasons though. That’s probably top of his list, however there are other reasons which he probably didn’t want to explain because they'd take ages and you'd probably interrupt at every opportunity and it would turn into a heated argument (which men prefer to avoid). You would have questioned his integrity and his judgement, when really it's not just his judgement, but the judgement of most guys. You might not have a sexually transmitted disease now, but he might get into a relationship with you and you have sex with a one-off guy or many one-off guys and catch something. You might be unfaithful in the relationship, have a child which you claim is his when really it was the postmans or the milkmans. Just like men, there are certain women out there that are more prone to being unfaithful. Just like women should avoid men that are unfaithful, men should avoid women that are unfaithful.
There are other biological reasons that are deep rooted in a man’s brain and inherited and we literally can’t help feeling that way. Women go for certain features of men, men go for certain features as women (the things that women go for annoy me but I can't change that, just like you are frustrated that a guys opinion of you has changed now he thinks you’ve had 20 men).
When it comes to settling down, he wants to know that his woman is as close to being a virgin as possible. Decades ago, it might have been to just find a virgin and nowadays trying to find a virgin would be just unfeasible, so he goes for women that haven’t had too many men. Guys that are just after sex, quite like women who are slappers because it means easy sex (sorry for using the word “slappers” for the purpose of this article but that’s most common name that people would know). Men that want to settle down hate women that have had loads of sexual partners.
Often these days women become pregnant and have terminations. The more terminations a woman has the more infertile she is likely to be. The more sexually transmitted diseases she has had the more infertile she will be. The more babies she has had already, the more likely is her body won't withstand more births. The more blokes she has had in the past the more emotional issues she might carry into this relationship.
In a way it also damages his reputation. If he goes out with a woman that’s been with loads of men and then finishes with her, there are going to be many men and women out there saying “that’s that bloke that went out with that slapper”. Is another woman going to want to go out with a guy and follow in the footsteps of that woman who was a slapper? He’s going to look easily pleased if he went out with a woman like that and other women will most probably question whether he is into serious relationships or just short sexual relationships.
There have also been some reports that when women become pregnant with their first child, their body expects the next child to be the same DNA from the father. Which means if a woman then has a child by another guy, there tends to be complications with pregnancy such as pre-eclampsia and miscarriages, like the ladies body tries to reject the pregnancy by another man. Because of modern medicine women have become more able to have children without putting their lives at risk. Infant mortality is still bad but maternal mortality is now much better than in previous centuries. Add to that women now have more independence financially. In this century they can get away with being a single mother because they are allowed to have jobs and benefits. In previous centuries women weren’t allowed to work and had to stay at home and be housewives and bring up the children and without men they would have suffered severe poverty and stigma.
Whilst all that has happened and most men have adjusted to women being able to get jobs and have more freedom in life, biologically men are still men. If they fancied women that had sex with loads of men, the chances are there would be no married women around. Men wouldn’t have a need to settle down because they wouldn’t need a stable relationship where the woman would be faithful.
The moral of this story is, there is no point in trying to change what is deep rooted in a guys biology. Ideally avoid the subject altogether. If you’ve only had one person don’t try and test him by joking and saying 20, just tell him the truth and say 1. If you’ve had loads of blokes, then just avoid the subject altogether and say you’ll tell him as the relationship progresses.
It dosen't mean that sleep around! And even if a women chose to have some no strings relationships it dosen't mean she should be judged and labelled.
It does, because women make judgements about blokes and blokes make judgements about women. It’s just that women have different needs and men have different needs. High on a man’s needs is a woman that has conducted herself like a lady from the moment she started dating men. Your reputation starts with your first boyfriend. If you pick up a man who is a bad boy, then the chances are anybody that knows you when you go out with that bad boy won’t want a long term relationship thereafter. Women that choose bad boys, typically then have to go from one bad boy to another or else move out of the area and start their reputation off from the beginning again.
On many occasions I’ve been judged by women unfairly and I know how frustrated you are. Women have pretty much blanked me when I lived with my parents. Presumably because they make a judgement that they think I’m a mummys boy (whatever that means) or because I don’t have my own house or haven’t got the experience of looking after a house and myself. Realistically I lived with my parents, I helped them and they helped me with things, that’s part of being a family, they would have done those same things had I lived in a house somewhere else.
After all men do it all the time so if it's ok for them.
Some men do it all the time. Some women make judgements that a lot of men do it all the time, sometimes the press make judgements that a lot of men do it all the time. In reality there are many men out there that are still virgins. They probably won’t admit it because they are told that experience is what a woman wants and they feel rather ashamed and depressed that they haven’t managed to attract a woman. The reality is women seem to either be more attracted to guys that have sex with more women or else those guys are so confident that they make themselves available to a lot of women and so those men get more chances with women. There’s little chance of me convincing all women to change what they find attractive about men and there’s little chance of me convincing all men to change what they find attractive about women. Men and women are different and if they weren’t different then we’d probably not be attracted to each other and they’d be no sex and no children.
I know you must be frustrated and I know women should be able to enjoy themselves just as much as men do. The reality is though, that men’s bodies are different to women and men’s brains and different to women’s. Because of those differences there are double standards, there are many things men can get away with and there are many things women can get away with. One of those injustices is being able to have sex with as many partners as you want. You can do that, but it will narrow down the men that are available to you and it won’t be good for your long term sexual health either.
As I said above, if men found women that were slappers attractive, they’d be no-one in a long term relationship, both men and women would spend their whole lives moving from one relationship to another and not settling down. There reaches a point in a man’s life where he wants to settle down with one woman, get married and live a secure life together. He doesn’t find a woman that has had many sexual partners attractive. There are many reasons for that, but it’s firmly engrained into a man’s brain, just like when a woman is looking for a man, there are things that are firmly engrained in her brain.
I used to be very nice to women and do anything they wanted and be a bit submissive, and guess what? I had loads of female friends but few of them found me attractive. Why is it ok for women to think that kind men are just friends? It’s unfair but I’m not going to be able to change women. You are not going to be able to change men on their opinion of women with long term potential, it’s biologically built into them and it’s how humans have survived and had healthy offspring over the centuries.
In my opinion if a woman does want to have loads of sexual partners then she should do it discretely. That means being discrete about it from the first time she becomes sexually active. Her reputation starts from her first boyfriend, whether she has sex with him or not. What a guy doesn’t know won’t hurt him. Avoid the subject and if possible never mention any previous sexual conquests. If you do have to mention previous sexual conquests then it’s best to mention them once the relationship is well advanced and he’s fallen for you. Even at that point it can be very unattractive if he finds out many men have gone where he is now going with you, so it’s best kept secret.
I’ve said loads of things where women have made judgements about me. I said to one woman I was having a conversation with, that I take my anger out when I play sport or I use a punchbag. She quickly commented “as long as you don’t take it out on women then” and then quickly walked off. And for months since then she has never talked to me apart from a mumbled hello occasionally. She obviously presumes I’m an aggressive woman beater, when I’ve never hit a woman before in my life. Even if I say to her that I don’t do that, I doubt she will believe me, because she has made that judgement now. So I just learnt never to say something like that to a woman again.
I don’t really recommend any man or woman goes around having casual sex, even if it is just for fun. It can cause them problems for the rest of their lives, in the form of sexually transmitted diseases, children with broken families and long term traumatic memories. That’s my opinion though and everybody has a right to their own opinion.
He was totally convinced that i had slept with lots of men like this even though i said that i was just making a point.
You never make a point about this particular subject, you can’t change what guys find attractive and what they don’t find attractive. You can’t make guys think like a woman and even if you do you’d probably stop finding him attractive if he did think like a woman.
The night ended on a sour note and i went home feeling very disappointed and judged even though in fact i have only ever had sex with one man!
Remember that when people say something wrong, they learn from their mistakes and don’t do it again (I’ve done that thousands of times in my life). I think you should learn from this mistake and hopefully many women reading this article will learn from your experience too. The best policy is not to make a point, try to change or to joke about this to their boyfriends, because he will take it deadly seriously.
Why would a man adopt this belief?
I wouldn’t say all men in the world, but the majority of men that want a long term relationship. There was a reason for men finding virgins attractive in the past and there’s a reason why men want a woman as close to a virgin as possible now, it’s biologically built into them.
He contacted me the next day and said he still wanted to see me and accepted that i was just making a point.
What’s the problem then? He has gave you another chance and may not fully believe what you said, but obviously likes you enough to give you the benefit of the doubt!
I didn't feel the same way towards him after the previous night and told that i didn't think it would work out. He tried to make me feel like a child who was stamping her feet because she couldn't have her own way. I ended the call and thankfully have not heard anymore from him. Why did he call me if he thought i was some kind of tramp?
It was either because he liked you a lot to give you the benefit of the doubt or because he thought “oh well, even if she has been a tramp she might eventually convince me to stay with her”. Needless to say if it was the second option then it wouldn’t have been wise. Whatever is the case, telling a bloke you had sex with loads of guys, even if it’s just making a point, is not an image a guy wants in his head. It would take a very long time to lose the image of you having sex with 20 other guys. Imagine him having sex with you and then imagining during the sex, that 20 other guys have done this, it’s not a pleasant thought and not a romantic thought. Each relationship you have should be kept separately.
I just want to say at the end of this message, that you are certainly a woman of class if you have only had sex with one guy before. Any women that have had sex with many men should project that they are women of class in order to attract men for long term relationships. I really do sympathise with the fact that culturally and evolutionally it’s not wise for women to have sex with too many partners and that concept is deep rooted in a man’s brain.
I must also point that I’ve made many points with women in the past both in person and on this web site about their judgements about men. The reality is women fancy men for a reason, some of those reasons are biological and can’t be changed and others are personal preferences which rarely can be changed either. It does seem like a bad deal and many men probably wouldn’t be able to cope with the concept of being a virgin if it was them that had to do that. However you have to get used to the fact that it’s the way things are, that men and women are different and there are some things you can’t change.
Reply by Emi 21.06.10
Dear Sam,
In defence of 'longtallsally', I want to say that this whole saga was the man's fault entirely, for asking her a very intrusive question.
It isn’t really my aim to judge whose fault it was. My web site is about giving longtallsally an honest answer to her message. My web site is not about telling women what they want to hear, it’s about telling them the truth about how men think and it’s about me being honest.
However you have send me a message asking me, stating it was the man’s fault and so I have to answer that. I disagree with you there; I don’t think the whole saga was the man’s fault entirely! My opinion is the guy shouldn’t have asked the question and I really wish other guys wouldn’t ask that question too (I personally avoid the question because I prefer not to know). However in this case he asked it and longtallsally answered it in the wrong way (it wasn’t his fault that she answered it the wrong way, which is why I say it isn’t entirely his fault). Instead she chose to make a point and become confrontational which meant that both people did something wrong. There was absolutely no point in telling a lie in her case, because she’d only had sex with one bloke.
Starting a relationship with a bloke is not about making a point and defending all other women and defending the principals of modern feminism, it’s about getting to know each other and asking questions. It’s not a woman versus a man, it’s meant to be a man and woman getting to know each other. I have to ask you, if a woman asked a bloke a serious question and he answered with an answer like longtallsally, what would the women think of the bloke? She probably wouldn’t be too pleased that he hadn’t taken the question seriously and got defensive about it!
He's also going to be a bit apprehensive about asking her any other questions and will wonder what other things she will get defensive about.
The man I am now happily married to (for the past 12 years) asked me the same question when we were on our 3rd date.
Which is why I stated to longtallsally “What is the problem?”, it doesn’t mean her relationship can’t work out, just because he asked one awkward question. Based on what she has said, I personally believe if she gives him another chance, there is a chance that it will work out.
I was quite furious but did not show it and instead replied politely that I didnt want to answer the question at that stage. Well that made him crazy and he started accusing me of being a whore because if I couldnt answer the question then it must mean I had shagged a helluva lot of guys! He went on and on about it and sulked all night until I at last told him a whopper just to shut him up so we could talk about something else. To this day he doesnt know the truth and I dont know how many birds he has slept with because i have never asked.
I believe the message you have written her is excellent, it's a very important comparison to her situation and very similar too. So longtallsally should have done what you did, in that particular order if she had had loads of sexual partners in the past. She should have avoided the question initially in a non-confrontational way, if that doesn’t work, she should just lie (it’s one of the very few situations where I recommend lying).
We are very happy though I wonder what would have happened if I had told the truth or been like longtallsally and challenged the question.
Exactly, if you’d have told the truth or challenged the question, you would have ended up with another bloke and learned what longtallsally has learnt from this situation. If I was to tell longtallsally that she did the right thing by defending modern feminism, she will do the same thing over and over again. Instead what I’ve implied in my reply to her is that it would be very rare that she would win a guy over by trying to convert men to modern feminism, men are not women (if you do want to try converting men, then I suggest you avoid trying to convert the ones that you are dating or that you fancy).
I think men should learn not to ask questions like this because either they are going to hear things they dont want to know or they risk being lied to.
Which is a point I made when I replied to her message, however I can’t change every man in this world. I try to avoid the subject myself, but other guys obviously feel as though it’s a question they have to ask.
After all, how are they ever going to know the truth?
You don’t want them to know the truth about this particular subject. Your past is your past and whilst a man likes to know what your sexual health is going to be like if he settles down with you, you have to make sure you maximise your chances of staying with him by not telling the truth, unless indeed you are a virgin or have slept with only a handful of guys.
Really do you think in this day and age it is ok for a man to ask this and expect the 'correct' answer simply because men are made that way?
I don’t get what you are trying to say to me here? I expressed exactly the same opinion as you are expressing. I said quite clearly near the top of my reply to longtallsally and have said it over and over again in my message. I don’t think he should have asked this question, it’s a topic that is best avoided. However men do ask it and I can’t stop them asking it.
It's not a matter of this day and age, it's about biology, and biology can not be changed. Men were born males and shouldn't be made to feel like they should act like females.
It is like saying that its reasonable for a woman to ask a man how much money he earns and then judge him based on that, because biologically woman are designed to go for a breadwinner!
Exactly, I can’t stop women asking those questions because that is important to them, I equally can’t stop men asking their questions because that is important to them. I do make quips on my web site about women looking for men with money, but the truth is I can’t change women. Women frustrate men and men frustrate women, that’s a fact a life. Women and men are different, it’s time people got that into their heads. There is no point in trying to clone men into thinking like women. Because if they do end up the same as women, then women probably wouldn’t find men attractive and men wouldn’t find women attractive.
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