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puzzled on 23/04/2006
I'm on a part-time course (one full day
every 2 weeks). The course started back in Oct last year. Since Feb, I
found myself attracted to a guy (X) in my class.
A bit about him and me so you can judge
the following better: I'm 33, he's 23, but very mature for his age:
doesn't want to date shallow girls, prefers someone whom he can have a
conversation with, someone who can make him laugh, bemoans at the sight
of teenage mothers... I don't think he has a girlfriend.
I know that it is not common for men to
find older women attractive (more than 4 years older). The only
exception is if she is very good looking or he is not particularly good
with women. Saying that one of my first girlfriends was 10 years
older than me, but I didn't know she was that old when I first become
attracted to her, I thought she was about the same age as me. So it
is possible, just not that common.
Women from my race age very well, so
although I’m 33, I look 25 (everyone tells me that). X is 23. He didn’t
know I was over 30 until we talked about age with a group of friends. He
doesn’t know my exact age, just that I’m at least 30.
A lot of men who are serious about
relationships, are now starting to get really bored with shallow girls,
particularly ones that a promiscuous. It's just not attractive to
someone you want to have a long term relationship with. Most young
men though are not serious about relationships and therefore love shallow
women, because they provide them with sex and no commitment.
See, that’s part of the reason why I like
X. He’s 23 but is already over shallow women. He’s not promiscuous. (He
lives with his parents and 2 younger brothers, so I imagine it’d be
difficult to have sex with a girl at his?
Pretty much impossible for him to have sex
at his, if he is living with his parents. You may also find that he
won't stay over your house the whole night, because then his
parents/brothers will know he is out having sex around a woman's house.
The school organized a party once and he
said: “this is the highlight of my week” (he could be joking though). So
I don’t imagine him messing around. He also doesn’t like clubbing. A few
friends and us went clubbing once. He left after a few hours because he
found it sad that the girls were attractive but looked desperate.
That is a sign of a frustrated man.
A man frustrated by women giving him a lack of attention. A guy
frustrated by the fact that women are so unattractively loose. He
is the sort of guy you want to be with, because he sounds faithful and
sensible and sounds as though he wants a long term relationship.
To cut a long story short, I shall just
list the signs that I think he fancies/doesn't fancy me (will try to list
choronologically, but can't guarantee)
1. X, Y (another guy in the class) and I
went for a drink where Y found out that my family does not live in the
UK, so Y said we'll be your family. So I said to Y: Hi Dad and to X: Hi
Granddad, to which X replied: "Granddad? Or boyfriend?" (I
don't think he was drunk.) I said, sure.
Well at that point, he was obviously
thinking about being your boyfriend. You really don't come up with
the word "boyfriend" instantly in a conversation.
That’s what I thought too. At that
point, I didn’t fancy him that much, so probably not showing any signs of
interest. Maybe he took it that I wasn’t interested.
2. On the same night, I didn't look
happy. X & Y asked me about it, so I told him it was to do with a guy
(Z). I said I'd decided to forget about Z & move on. X then said are
you sure? What if he [Z] did this and that?
Friends are interested in hearing about
Ex's, boyfriends or potential boyfriends hate hearing about women's
Ex's. Women usually moan on about how badly their Ex's have treated
them, that tends to irritate most guys.
3. One evening, X, Y and I were at
chilling at my place. I was in my own thoughts for a little while
(thinking about Z). X knew what the matter was and said: you're a very
beautiful woman, you'll meet lots of guys [or don't worry about Z,
something along those lines]. X said to me several times I was beautiful,
but then I guess it doesn't mean anything.
If he said you are beautiful, then he
means it. But I must admit I have said to some of my female friends
they look beautiful, even though I don't fancy them, because there personality
is not suited to me long term.
4. X, Y & I were asking each other
what kind of guys/girls we like. X listed a few races/countries of origin
and I'm not of any one of those.
Not really significant, I like women from
many countries, but that's not to say I wouldn't fancy a woman from Outer
Mongolia if I met her.
5. We arranged a study session on a
Sunday. He was the 1st to arrive and then I showed up. He said we should
go have a nice meal afterwards (we both absolutely love food and had been
talking about going to different restaurants). Nobody else showed up for the
session, so just he and I. We did go for dinner, but I was so nervous I
didn't say much. He didn't try to hold my hands or anything, not even a
goodbye kiss. Maybe just dinner between friends.
Maybe your nervousness and lack of speech,
gave him a hint that you either did not fancy him or you weren't suited
to each other?
But that evening visit to the gallery,
we had a lot more to say, we laughed and had fun, so if he likes girls
who can make him laugh and who can have a conversation with him (both of
which I did) and he thinks I’m beautiful, maybe I’ll have a chance?
6. At the end of March, he called me and
we had a rather long chat (20 minutes or so). AT some point, he suggested
we have Japanese food after class on April 1. Came the day, a group of us
went to have a drink, but he never mentioned that dinner, so we simply
went our separate ways after the drink. I was most angry.
It does seem weird, how he keeps asking
you out for meals. Would you really eat out so much and ask someone to a
meal so often unless you fancied them?
good point, but we both love food. Or
maybe he just talks and doesn’t walk the talk.
7. On April 1, a group of us went for a
drink where X saw a leaflet advertising a play. He asked me and another
guy in the class whether we'd like to go (cos the 3 of us were sitting
together at the time). The guy didn't seem particularly interested, so X
& I ended up discusssing dates and decided on April 15.
8. On April 8, X brought up the play as
soon as he saw me. And I said yes, we're going. After class, on our way
to dinner (with others), we happened to pass the theatre where it'd be
playing. X said to me we should get tickets. I said let's get some food
first cos I was hungry and get the tickets after dinner.
I don't know, but he may have read that as
you weren't that keen to go. With you moving the conversation
swiftly onto having food.
At dinner, we sat together but he didn't
chat much with me. Nothing about the tickets was mentioned after dinner.
At dinner, X invited me, on the day, to his friend's birthday party, but
he didn't just invite me. He asked others as well. WE were the last to
leave, when the tube got to my station, he kissed both my cheeks (the 1st
time ever; he never did on similar occasions).
9. Came April 14, no call from X re the
play, so I called him (hoping he'd bring it up and cos I was stressed at
work, so just wanted to talk to him). His phone was off, so I left a
brief msg on his voicemail (I didn't ask him to call back). His cell
phone wasn't working, so he didn't get my msg until April 19 when he
called. We chatted for about 20 mins (he'd never called me between
classes until recently when we've had 2 long conversations; this one
being the 2nd; does a guy spend so much time on the phone with a girl if
he doesn't fancy her?
He can, if he sees her as a friend, so you
do need to look for other signs to find out if he fancies you.
Plus, my no is an expensive no to call
and he doesn't have that much money). During the conversation, he invited
me to a party after class on April 22.
Again he is inviting you to something
else, he really wants to see you often. He's confusing me as well
now!
you made me laugh, Sam, now he’s
confusing you too. See, now you know why I’m confused.
We then talked about stress at work and
movies (to de-stress). He said, "I'm [or "I would be"; I
can't remember] obliged to take you to the movies." I said,
"Obliged?" He said, "I mean I'd like to". Since he
works weeknights, he suggested going on a Sunday or on April 22, after
class, ! before the party.
Even more confusing, again he is asking
you out. And he is obliged to do so.
either he used obliged to mean honoured
or he felt that he should make it up to me for not having had a meal with
me that evening as mentioned days prior.
April 22, after class, a few of us went
for a drink. At the pub, he said he'd go to the library to study later (I
thought, what about the movie?). I said, "No, I don't feel like
studying." So he suggested going for a bite to eat, come back to the
school to get on the internet to see what was on at the cinemas. So, he,
another guy and I had a bite to eat. The guy then went home, and we went
back to the school to check what was playing. Nothing much or the times
didn't fit in with the time of his party. So we walked to a nearby theatre,
nothing much again. So I suggested getting a DVD and watching it at my
place (I admit that was my plan to get close to him!). He didn't take up
the offer! He said we could just watch it at school!
Even more odd, why would he not take up an
offer to go back to your place. Whether as a friend or with the
potential to get intimate. Is this guy shy?
Either because there wouldn’t be enough
time to go to my place, watch a movie and then go to the party, or he
doesn’t fancy me or he’s being cautious because he doesn’t want to lose
me as a friend or if he makes a move and I’m not interested, it’ll be
awkward to face each other in class?
So, obviously not even interested in
being intimate with me.
Or even scared of being intimate with you?
(The party venue, school and theatre were
all within walking distance; my place is about 30-40 mins from school).
Eventually he suggested going to a nearby
art gallery. It was a nice walk. We had good conversations; we laughed
and had fun. I always "touch" him like half-hitting him that
sort of thing, but he's never done the same. (Obviously, not interested I
guess).
You would think that he would at least be
mirroring some of the things you do, whether as a potential boyfriend or
just a friend, because friends mirror each other as well.
After the gallery, I was going to go home
and he was going to go to the party. He asked me if his hair looked ok
(so he's interested in meeting other girls, not in me). He didn't hold my
hands, didn't touch me or anything.
I think he spent the 2.5 hours with me
cos he had time to kill between dinner and the party. Mind you, he could
have gone to the library as he suggested, but I said I didn't want to. I
think he just wanted to help me relax and de-stress.
I called X after I got home from the gallery.
He was still at the party. So I said I'd speak to him later. If he
fancied me, he'd have called me to find out why I called him that night,
right? Another obvious sign he doesn't fancy me.
My gut feeling is he's not interested,
but I feel i'm getting mixed signals. He just treats me as a friend.
Because he likes my company, so he includes me in his plans.
It does sound that way. You would
have thought he would have made a move on you by now otherwise. Or
maybe he is has got his mind stuck on you as a friend and doesn't want to
risk losing you as a friend by getting intimate with you, maybe he still
doesn't realise you fancy him.
Should I do anything to let him know I’m
interested? But I think I’ve already done so: I emailed him and invited
him to come to mine and study together (but he never mentioned it).
Did he not mention it, or was he waiting
for you to take the offer further and ask him in person? It is not
good for a man to invite himself around a woman's place, even if she has
produced the possibility in the past. You have to say when you want
him to come round and it is best that you say at the very time you want
him to come round, so he doesn't have to wait.
I told a very close friend of mine (a
guy) that I like X. His conclusion is that X is not interested.
It depends whether this guy you asked
fancies you. He could be telling fibs because he wants you and
doesn't want you to get with X. If you know this guy doesn't fancy
you, then I think you can safely take his conclusion, if he knows X well.
Problem is I think this guy might like
me. He couldn’t believe it when I told him I liked X, he was saying why
do you like him? Then I told him why and he’d attack the reasons I gave.
I've asked my best friend (the one in our
class who said X wasn't interested) to ask X subtly what he thought about
me, whether he liked me, etc. He hasn't had a chance yet, but do you
think that's a good idea?
It depends how he puts it, men tend not to
have very much tact when asking questions like this.
Will X tell him the truth?
It's debatable whether he will tell the
truth. It depends how much he knows this other guy. Most guys
will tell the truth to their friends.
Will X suspect I asked my friend to ask
him?
Depends how this friend of yours asks him.
Should I put this behind cos I don't
think X is interested, not get my hopes high and just be his friend?
You certainly should not get your hopes
high. This guy has given you far from a conclusive message.
Whether you fancy someone should be conclusive from the start, he is
giving off mixed signals. So you should probably trust your gut
instincts.
?If he doesn't fancy me now, is there any
chance he'll in the future?
It is possible, though the odds are
stacked against you. Sometimes when people become such close
friends they start to think that they could spend the rest of their life
together. I'm not sure whether this is a conclusive way to fancy
someone though. I would think that things will fall apart
eventually, because it's like confusing a friendship with a relationship.
Or are guys' minds pretty made up when
they meet a girl?
No, not necessarily. But I'm
inclined to think men that change their mind after knowing someone are
more confused with friendship and relationship, rather than really
fancying a woman.
X says he'll stop dating younger girls
but girls who have at least graduated (from uni). He probably finds them
too shallow.
X does ask girls out: I overheard him say
that he'd tried 3 times to arrange to have dinner with a girl, but
failed.
Good job you mentioned that. I was
going to say "Is this guy shy, does this guy lack knowledge about
women, is this guy gay?" But you've ruled those out by saying
that he has asked a woman out 3 times. It brings in a few other
possibilities
1) Is he trying to make this other girl
jealous?
2) Has his confidence been knocked by this
other woman, so he doesn't have the confidence to ask you out?
3) Has this other woman made him, give up
on women for now?
4) Does he just want you as a friend?
5) Does he just want female company?
6) Does he want you to give him advice and
knowledge about women?
7) Is he just bored and/or lonely and
wants someone to go out with him?
He'd also expressed his concern on the
fine line between stalking and showing interest. Just thought maybe this
would help your judgment.
My conclusion, is this guy is giving off
mixed signals.
absolutely, that’s why I wanted your
opinion.
You should just continue as friends, if
anything more than that happens, then fair enough. But the fact
that he is giving off mixed signals, does not go well for the potential
of a long term relationship, even if you do get together. You've got
to be certain about someone and make mostly decisive decisions for a
relationship to a long term success.
sorry one more thing: I’m from country A.
X lived there for many years but hasn’t been back for a long time. This
best friend of mine in class (let's call him BF, for best friend, also
from country A) and I were going to return in the summer, so I invited X
to join us, so we could enjoy the food country A has to offer (X & I
love eating, esp food from country A). He said yes, then later, he said
if we could arrange a side-trip along with country A, then he'd go.
Later, on one occasion, he said in front of others: can you put me in
your suitcase when you go back to country A? Anyway, looks like now he
can’t make it because he’s tied down to his job. So I guess the intention
was there nevertheless?
As you know from my other articles, I am
usually straight to the point about blokes. But your situation
really is confusing me. In certain respects this guy reminds me of
me when I was in the first year of Uni. I was shy and didn't have a
clue about women, because I'd been to an all boys school. Looking
back now, I reckon many of the women I encountered in the first year of
Uni actually fancied me, but at the time I didn't have a clue.
Now I know a lot more about women, I know
what to look out for. Whereas at the time, I made only vague
efforts with women, even the one's that I really fancied. The only
chance of a woman getting with me at that time, was if she made the
decisive moves. Even touching women, the woman had to touch me before I
touched her. Partly because I didn't know what to do and when to do
it, and partly because I didn't want to creep these women out by touching
them all the time. I just didn't have a clue because I had spent my
teens at an all boys school. And that was part of the reason why I
started reading up and body language, because it was frustrating not
knowing how to read a woman.
And I was scared that I would make a move
on a woman and she wouldn't fancy me. I'd then end up looking a fool
and also lose some friends over it.
So it is possible that he is like this
too, but I think guys like this are very rare.
I've asked BF to arrange a get-together
this Sat. Anything I should do or watch out for regarding X? Oh another
thing, when he called me on april 19, he asked me if I'd be attending a
function on April 25 and I said no. Trying to see me again? OR he just
didn't want to go by himself?
You want to start getting some tactful
touching going on. Whether it is just touching his arm or shoulder
occasionally or brushing against him. He should take notice of
this. If he looks uncomfortable with that, you can always
stop. But don't do too much touching, don't suddenly start touching
him all the time.
To find out whether he is being submissive,
you need to start taking control in certain things. If he suggests
something then remind him, by asking him so are we going there
then. Ask him somewhere on the spot and at a time when you are
ready to do it. For example don't say do you fancy doing to
revision round mine tomorrow, say do you fancy doing some revision round
mine now.
As you are friends, it is going to be very
difficult to pick out whether he fancies you, because friends display
similar symptoms to people who fancy each other, eye contact, closeness
etc.
I really can't offer you much more advice
than that, because your situation confuses me too.
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